next breaking news. airports and airlines around the world on high alert tonight. u.s. officials linking a credible shoe bomb threat to al qaeda. plus, how colorado is making a killing on weed. the numbers are in, they may mean pot is coming to your state and pretty darn quickly. why are republicans, some of them, defending him. let's go out front. good evening, everyone. i'm erin burnett and "outfront" breaking news. tying the new threat of shoe bombs on airplanes to al qaeda. indications the threat could ultimately be tied to the man on

your screen right now. the master bombmaker for al qaeda in the arabian peninsula. he's the man officials say designed the underwear bomb that failed to deadinate a detroit bound flight on christmas day in 2009. also made the printer cartridge bo bombs the next year. the new warning is related to recent intelligence gathered believe to be tied, our understanding these bombmakers end up with a fingerprint. things they do in designing these bombs that trace to a specific individual. our chief national correspondent jim sciutto is in washington tonight. jim, what more do you know about this warning and about this situation? >> is the official said the threat is related to al qaeda. whether to al qaeda core and

pakistan led by bin laden and al qaeda in the arabian peninsula and growing in strength in recent years tied to the master bombmaker for al qaeda al asiri and someone they have been watching for quite some time. the intelligence or the warning was based on intelligence that this bombmaking was working on a new design for shoe bombs intended to get past airport security. as you know, we take our shoes off and already looking at this ever since richard reed attempted this bombing in 2001, just after 9/11. their concern overtime with al qaeda-like groups they're honing their methods better. this guy, al asiri who they believe can do that. as you mentioned, the underwear bomb christmas day in 2009, but also this is a guy who sent his own brother with another bomb somehow carried on his person that nearly killed the saudi prince and killed that brother.

he's a ruthless guy and he's skilled and his tactics are being shared widely. that's why they're concerned about that kind of thing. >> at the same time specific and not specific. that's the line they try to walk. be worried about this and then giving 25 or 30 cities and then they say they don't know if it's imminent and just a lot of questions. the homeland security secretary was asked about that today. how serious is this threat? what was the response? >> it's an excellent question, erin. his response, this is similar to what i'm hearing, i have been talking to folks at national counterterrorist center. listen, it's credible. we're concerned about it. it's a serious threat, but not specific in target or timing. when you bring it altogether on the scale of, say one to ten, a moderate threat. somewhere in the middle. and that means that you'll see some, you know, increased scrutiny at this kind of thing, but not to the point where they're canceling flights and taking extreme measures.

that's where it is on the scale. this is the battle with this kind of intelligence that they don't know for sure, they can only do their best. >> jim, thank you very much. i want to bring in national security analyst bob . what they mean with they put this warning out here. second day in a row we heard about this threat. how concerned are you when you hear it two days in a row and it's getting more and more specific? >> erin, two days in a row they have something. they have credible intelligence it could be from chatter or from another country or a source. they're clearly worried about this. they're worried al asiari is getting better and better with his technology. a couple bombers, the tdetonatos failed. he's getting better, no doubt about it. you can cut the skin of an airplane if it's planted at the right place. there's a serious threat to aviation. but what they don't have is

actionable intelligence to actually arrest somebody, but that's often the case. you never get the full report. you know, that leads immediately to an arrest. >> i mean, this guy, the suspect is a master bombmaker, at least intelligence officials tell us, ibrahim al asiri. 30-year-old college dropout but incredibly sophisticated in terms of making bombs. how dangerous is he? i mean, the fact that we know his name and this is the second time in a few months that his name has come up in particular relating to threats of bombs on airplanes? >> certain technology they're worried about that went down to yemen and he picked up developed by the politicians in the '70s. it is the ability to hide explosives and use specialized detonators that can get through security and i can tell you -- >> even though it's from the '70s? >> it was a couple engineers that built these things and it wasn't widely defused, but it

took down three airplanes, korean airplane. it took down a canadian airplane a plane coming out of canada and pan am 103 connected to the same technology. no airport is completely secure and that's why it's vulnerable, aviation. >> can this guy be caught? they know his name. they believe he is in yemen and people they believe are al qaeda operatives in yemen. why is this guy hasn't been caught? >> he's up in the mountains of yemen. he's gone off cell phones. there's no digital footprint that he's left behind. he's smart, he's learned. he's read about leaks in this country. he knows what he's doing and by hiding with these tribes in a remote area and no way going out and becoming public or talkingen the phone, he's fairly immune

and there's nothing the yemeni government could do about it. they would love to get a hold of him, but they just can't. >> before we go, any idea of how many people he could have trained to do this? obviously, 31 years old, college dropout who has this ability this person has an unusually high intelligence. how hard is it to find other people that they may have trained or is it as simple as one person? >> i think he's trained other people. there's no doubt about it. you kill him, someone's going to step up, use the same technology. it's a race. so far we've won it, but let's see. >> all right, bob baer, thank you very much. a sobering way to end the conversation, but an important way to look at it. "outfront" next colorado's marijuana sales literally through the roof. the numbers are in and they're pretty darn shocking. does it mean other states should get in on the action? two former navy s.e.a.l.s. why some say the famous "captain

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tonight colorado rolling in the green. the numbers are in. colorado's legal marijuana market is booming. the governor expects to take in $184 million in tax revenue from pot. this is just in the first 18 months of being legal. i mean, that's pretty incredible. they sold $610 million at the

store. i guess. that's pretty incredible number. it is well, well ahead of what they were expecting. i believe $100 million. at least more than they thought. kevin and bloomberg anchor trish regan who has written a book on pot. let me start with you, kevin. these numbers are stunning and they don't surprise trish because she has been reporting on this. do they surprise you? $184 million in tax revenue from pot. that makes the argument that every state should rush to do this. >> look, we heard that argument for the lottery to save public education and the last time i checked and teachers still being paid incredibly low salaries. this is now just the latest in a series of things presented as a quick fix. my question back to the governor and also to trish and others at what costs do these revenues come? what about the extra cost of the increase problems that we have. a 44% increase in marijuana

positives in the workplace and that's a cost employers will bear. what about the health care system and education? we know the connection between marijuana and iq and, frankly, low grades and heavy marijuana use among kids. the only people making money from this, erin, the big tobacco-like industry that is in full force advertising like crazy. promotion with your ski pass and these ridiculous things, yeah. >> i know, trish, you know you were saying there had been a big pickup, by the way, in colorado versus other states in the west. in terms of tourism, people going because of pot. >> if you're a group of guys and going skiing and you have a choice between utah and colorado, well, maybe you're going to choose colorado for -- >> not if you're a parent. you're not going to choose colorado if you're a warranpare. you'll choose utah. >> you're trying to take the criminal element out of this industry. there is no more profitable drug

in the world right now than marijuana. it's the reason why you have drug cartels coming up from latin america and growing on parkland there. it is because it's an opportunity for them and, so -- >> drug cartels make money from cocaine and heroin and other drugs, right? 15% revenue. marijuana. that's not true. >> marijuana is the number one drug -- >> trish, you need to look at the rand report, basically 15% to 25% maximum revenue from marijuana gotten by cartels. the last time i checked the cartels were not wiped away in colorado or washington. they're still there and actually now targeting minors because you can only sell to 21 and over. >> the issue here at the end of the day is you're trying to take an industry and take the criminal element out of it. >> it's still there. >> i'll tell you one thing. i have three kids and i am absolutely not an advocate for marijuana use or drug use of any kind. i actually never even tried it, but i'm for legalization. the reason is because you have the opportunity to tax and

regulate this. i've spent enough times around this subject and reported on it so much that at the end of the day, erin, you say to yourself, if someone has the opportunity to buy this in a criminal setting or from a drug dealer, aren't you running the risk that then can it transfer into something more. but if it's just down the street at your local dispensary, at least you're taxing and regulating it. >> money from the government for it. >> we're getting for every dollar and tax revenue it's costing us 10 in social cost. we're going to give money to the government, you will with tax revenue, but then spending it with, what about the highway accidents? what about the health care costs and the second-hand smoke costs? >> kevin, let me just say something dr. sanjay gupta has come out and shocked a lot of people when he said i used to be against pot and now i'm not. 88,000 deaths due to alcohol abuse, zero from marijuana. and that's what changed his mind

and made him for legalization. >> last time i checked, which was a month ago with dr. gupta he told me what he was talking about was medical and not legalization. maybe we should have him on the program to clear up the subject. i'll take him at his word more the medical aspects of the components of marijuana. i agree with. that's a separation. >> what we went through with the alcohol industry. now, you know, alcohol, you could say that's also a drug. >> it is a drug. >> people do have problems with it. >> they do. >> but at least we've taken the criminal aspect out of the alcohol -- >> trish, alcohol was legal for our history and illegal for about ten years. very different. >> during that time, it's not like you stopped people from drinking. they were drinking it out of bathtubs in the back. >> overall alcohol use and sorosis of the liver dramatically reduced. doesn't mean i'm in favor of

alcohol prohibition. alcohol, deadly, of course, has a totally different history than marijuana. what we're doing now is creating the next big tobacco of our time. we now have a third legal industry with offices on k street in washington out there promoting and lobbying as a special interest group. is that the kind of society we want to create? >> i keep hearing this big marijuana. trish, you looked at the numbers. are they as big as big tobacco? >> $75 billion industry, erin. i mean, look at the alcohol industry which is north of $200 billion. >> those are -- you want to create that for marijuana. you want to equate it for that. >> it's estimated to be somewhere between a couple billion and 10 billion. so, that's where it currently stands. could it be bigger? >> according to the numbers. it's not of the same scale. for sure not. but it is, it is a decent size

industry. one that, in other words, you could gain a lot of tax revenue out if we choose to regulate it. >> trish, you -- >> not a legalization convention. i might have been on the panel talking about this issue. >> but my point is, when you were there, you saw a lot of these people, these private investor groups and these major. "wall street journal" says the yale mbas are here. these are major businesses. >> recognize to your point that this a business opportunity -- >> exactly. >> but not big business by any stretch of the imagination right now. right now small business owners. i met with mom with two little kids at home who is running a dispensarie dispensaries. >> when you have someone tell you they want to create the starbucks of marijuana. you have a guy in california -- >> he actually doesn't have a dispensary yet.

>> that's a problem. >> there are people out there that do recognize this as a business opportunity and it certainly is. however, there's not necessarily anything wrong with that, kevin, if you can, in fact, create an industry that is free of all the criminal attachments that currently exist. >> all right. >> we got to leave it there. i made the deal, i made the deal. you guys were great together and i know you've done this before. thanks to both of you. facebook spends $19 billion on what'sapp. how he went from food stamps to billionaire. great personal story. chris christie finally faces his critics, except his critics did not show up. are you still sleeping? just wanted to check and make sure that we were on schedule.

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meet silicicone valley's biggest billionaires. facebook bought for $19 billion. well, as you're about to see this duo's newfound jackpot is a rags to riches story. i had no idea, bill weir, how cool this story is. >> amazing. new kind of american dream. let me tell you this story, folks. about a guy and it begins when he was 16 growing utp in a

village outside of ukraine. he and his mom decide to move to america and dad can't afford to come. they fill a suitcase with soviet notebooks and pens so he would have supplies at his new school. they land in silicon valley where mom gets cancer and they survive on her disability and food stamps. he gets into trouble at school and teaches himself computers. he enrolls at san jose state when yahoo! calls with a good job and there he befriends a guy named brian. after a decade of almost soulless engineering work at yahoo! they quit and blow some savings on travel and they apply for jobs at facebook and get rejected. but using one of those soviet notebook hes was using for special projects he draws up plans for something called w

whatsapp. message anywhere on any device anywhere in the world for free. a couple years after launch, it explodes. and then mark zuckerberg calls. over chocolate covered strawberries on this valentine's day, they strike a deal. this week along with their main investor, the guys make a symbolic trip to the social services office wheres he would line-up for food stamps. to put this in perfespective, erin. walmart is $108,000 per employee and gm little over $273,000. apple a whopping $6 million and whauts whatsapp just sold for $344 million. they only have 54 people working there, but they are hiring tonight. >> when you look at

overevaluation case, that screams red flag. they have a different model than facebook. they don't have any ads. how is this going to work? >> he hates privacy invasion. if you go to the website after they quit yahoo!. you go to their website and their mantra is this quote from fight club. >> working jobs we hate so we can buy [ bleep ] that we don't need. >> the wisdom and he explained that sentiment further at a tech conference in berlin last month. >> for us, putting advertising on something so purse ersonal ts your phone and putting advertising in a way of people trying to communicate and stay in touch and message each other would just be so, in our mind, wrong. >> yeah. yeah.

but have you seen facebook lately? zuckerberg used to talk like that but right now on my feed, they sold my data to mienke. they finally figured out how to advertise on mobile and jan insists they will remain ad free and not sell user data. how long they can keep that promise and hold on to their souls is the next chapter. >> easy to hold on to your soul when you have $344 million in your pocket. thanks to bill. still to come, barack obama gambles and loses. the seat price he is paying tonight. plus, a political fire storm in texas. will ted nugent's comments about the president as a subhuman sink the gop? a live picture of the protests in kiev. a horrific loss of life today. we'll be back. [ tires screech ]

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welcome back to the second half of "outfront" ukraine sees its deadliest day. these are live pictures of kiev at 2:30 in the morning. the death toll today more than 100. according to the opposition, but that is a one-day number. the tactics on both sides growing more extreme government forces are using snipers and

demonstrators are kidnapping police. it is completely chaos. the loss of life is widespread. earlier today a cnn photographer captured the moment medics helped a man on the ground when one was hit by gunfire. as you can see there, i mean, that is the situation here. you can't even help people. we don't know if that man even survived. the latest bloodshed broke out hours after ukraine's president and the opposition had agreed to a truce. chris christie talked sandy and springsteen. the new jersey governor had been a couple times delayed and went and answered questions on everything from hurricane assistance to his relationships with the state's biggest rock star. christie even talked about, you have been seeing a lot of older video of chris christie because he hasn't been out in the public so much lately. he looks different. here's what he had to say about that. >> by the way, your exercise program work good. looking good. >> we're getting there.

we're getting there. as i told a student came up to me and said to me, governor, you are getting a lot smaller. and i said, i said to her, i said, well, thank you. she goes, when are you going to get really small? and i said to her, well, my dear, rome was not unbuilt in a day either. so, you know, we have a little work still to do. >> governor has lost an incredible amount of weight. one interesting note because you may say, why are you playing chris christie talking about his weight. that's because nobody asked him about the bridgegate scandal. he did not receive one single question on that. an area hard hit by sandy, but hard to say. did the people of new jersey just not care about it? pretty interesting question to ask. he got none of them today. political firestorm brewing in texas the republican leading

candidate for governor has been campaigning with fiery ex-rocker ted nugent. after nugent called the president a subhuman mongrel. an insult to every texan. those are some of the reactions from political opponents and bloggers from some of those. ed lavandera tried asking about nugent and i wanted to play for you how that happened. >> why did you think it was a good idea to campaign with ted nugent? >> it's funny how the reactive, the davis campaign is to this. it shows that he's driven a wedge and exposed the fraud that they have displayed on second amendment-based issues. ted nugent was a way to expose winnie davis for her flipflopping on government related issues. >> but this is texas. finding someone who is proguns is not that hard. why does it have to be ted

nugent. >> what was your question? >> that was the question. >> well, ed kept trying. he's a persistent guy. he did not get an answer to his question, no matter how hard he tried. out front lisa, one of the opponen opponents. let me just ask you what you think of ted nugent's comments. obviously, you're sitting here talking an an africa american woman running for governor of texas. what do you think? >> this is about leadership in texas that needs to realize we're frin a spiritual battle where we need to to appeal to the hearts and minds of the american people. and this is not about political gains. we need to appeal beyond our base to those people who have been sharing our values, but we have been rejecting this party. and it's a shame that an incident like this prohibits from achieving that particular

goal. >> what do you think about what he had to say? i mean, what do you think about the word subhuman mongrel to explain the president of the united states. is that acceptable? >> it's not acceptable. and it's not acceptable for leadership to not come out and completely disavow that type of rhetoric and that type of language. the problem really is, though, a erin, is until the party can solve our identity crisis and rebuild and rebrand and articulate what it means to be a conservative and get back to the tenants of faith, hope and charity. we are putting this party and the future of texas at risk. i don't need to tell you that if we cannot keep texas strong and conservative, we run the risk of losing the white house for many years to come. >> well, texas, obviously, could turn democratic. we reported a lot on that when we look at the demographics. let me ask you about this. when you talked about, you put a

statement out about what ted nugent said. there's something in it i just want to pull out here for our viewers. you called ted nugent a noted bigot no matter how fervent his love of guns and the constitution. what i wanted to get out here, no matter how fervent his love of guns and the constitution. greg abbott had him on stage because he is pro guns. that's why he wanted ted nugent. even you seem to be nodding to that. is it that hard to say i don't care what that guy has to say about guns, no. >> it's not that hard. and as a matter of fact i would say that as a conservative, the second amendment, the constitution and a fervent protection of those things are very important. however, that is necessary, but not sufficient. the most important part about being a conservative and a republican is that we champion growth and opportunity for all texans and have leadership who understands that we cannot grow and be electable in the 21st

century if we do not firmly reject those ideas of things that have really demeaned and devalued core demographics that we desperately need to be with us. >> so, i'm translating. you alienate women and you end up with a lot fewer people even though you get the gun base, for example. our dana bash interviewed ted cruz, obviously, another texan, who everyone in this country now knows who he is. she asked him what ted nugent had to say and i want to play for you how ted cruz responded. >> i don't agree with those sentiments. i never said such a thing and nor would i. there is a reason that people listen to him. he has been fighting passionately for second amendment rights. >> would you campaign with ted nugent?

>> i will avoid engaging in hypotheticals. >> why can't he answer that question? i'm going to avoid engaging in hypotheticals. that's not no. it's most definitively not a no. that's what is happening in your party. >> i think that's a shame, actually. i think that until we can stand up and have the courage to say, listen, just as i condemn what jer maya wright said with -- leaders are called to be statesmen. and as the governor of texas we make decisions about leadership and appointments and who we decide to represent us and campaign with us is a reflection of that leadership. and i have no brb coming out and saying i disavow those statements, i condemn those statements. they're wrong. you would never see me campaigning with someone like that. they could endorse me. but i do not endorse that. >> well --

>> this is not the republican party that we know. the republican party is lincoln. it's values. it's hope. charity. >> well, thank you very much, losa, for taking the time as we said. candidate for republican governor of texas in a tea party leader in texas. ben ferguson cnn political commentator and conservative radio show host. thanks very much to both of you. let's just talk about ed lavandera for a moment. our reporter and i don't know if you could see the picture there, ben, but we asked craig abbott and his nose goes in the air and he is looking at anybody but ed lavandera. how is it so hard to say, i'm not going to be with that guy again and what that person said was horrific. why is this that hard to say. you said it last night on this show, ben. >> well, i think you're in an awkward situation where you ask a guy to come out with you. you invite him and then a video comes out of something in the

past that you didn't know was out there and then all of a sudden you're stuck in this awkward situation. if i was him i would say, look, knowing what he said now, probably wouldn't have done this. >> probably? >> i wouldn't have done it. let's just go there. he is a great guy on the second amendment, that's why i was having him around on that. people know him for that and these other comments i would not say them or endorse them and probably would have done things differently in the future. why didn't say it? i don't know. maybe it's because everybody is in his face. >> ed is in his office every day. he's an intimidating guy. i give him full credit on that one. >> he's asking the questions. this is serious. i mean, chris, what is your take on this? when you end up in a situation, you know, you just heard what lease ha to say where incidents like this remind a lot of people around this country who are not in the second amendment core base of the republican party who frankly aren't going to vote anything other than republican to begin with remind them why they don't want to vote republican. i'm talking about

african-americans, women, people of color, those are the people the republicans need to start becoming republican. and this doesn't help. >> it doesn't help. aside from the demographic problem the republicans have, you know, right now, let alone in texas and the coming years. there's this tendency that has been growing. you have seen this over the last few elections where the misstatements or the outright hate-filled words that either their candidates used or their surrogates use, they don't know what to do about it. the problem is, it's really easy. when someone says something that is this offensive, it is arguably, not even arguably racist, it is racist, you have to quickly condemn it. and he doesn't. so, the problem is he doesn't stay in texas. we live in a 24/7 interconnected world when this goes out, it goes out across the country. and voters, those independents, those moderates that both parties are fighting for, wait a second, this is the republican

party? it just further alienates them. >> go ahead, ben. >> this is the core issue that really irks me the most on this. somehow the outrage that has come out over this. when wendy davis' own campaign members were caught on camera mocking a handicapped man that is running against her and mocking the fact that he's in a wheelchair. where was the outrage and the camera in her face when her own campaign people made fun of the guy because he's handcuff in a whe wheelchair saying he can't even stand up in texas. >> little different than it being her herself. it is horrific, don't get me wrong. she should apologize. not as if she was doing it. >> her campaign people. her campaign people that did it. >> she's responsible for their actions, sorry, chris, go ahead. >> no one is going to make an excuse for that kind of behavior or that kind of talk, but also a fundamental difference than calling the president of the united states, i don't care whether you're a democrat or a

republican, call the president of the united states a subhuman mongrel. that is a kind of tone and rhetoric that has alienated so many people and the notion that you're running for governor of a state and that the person that is sitting next to you or is going to use those words and you're unwilling to condemn it, really raises questions about why are you running for office. >> ben, let me ask you about, let me just play, again, because this really struck me when our dana bash spoke to ted cruz. let me play that sound bite again. >> those sentiments there, of course, i dwoeon't agree with t and i never said such a thing. there is a reason that people listen to him. which has been that he has been fighting passionately for second amendment rights. >> would you campaign with ted nugent? >> i haven't yet and i will avoid engaging in hypotheticals. >> he said i agree, i would never do those things. that's good. there is a reason that people

listen to ted nugent, second amendment, also true. then he wouldn't say i wouldn't affiliate myself with that. >> and i think it's because he understands the context of ted nugent that ted nugent is a cra crazy, outlandish rock star who loves a camera in his face. he says crazy and outlandish things. he's not going to look at him the same as i said yesterday a pastor or pope or police director or politician. you look at democrats and they will sit on stage with rappers and they will sit there with people who make horrific movies, depicting beating women in a movie role and put their arms around them and break bread with him for $2,000 a plate dinner. >> ben -- >> let's look at it from -- >> those are really nice, but the reality -- final words. >> what we're talking about is this situation. if we want to talk about rappers and stuff like that, that's a

great discussion, let's have it. at the end of the day, ted cruz and in this case, ted nugent. ve very simple why he wouldn't do it, inflame the people who wouldn't support him. republicans in this situation do not condemn what is, obviously, something that should be condemned. >> i condemned it. >> ted cruz said that he wouldn't relate to it. but i will say this to make it very clear, if you hold this standard with all of hollywood that embraces the president of the united states of america, you couldn't have any of those movie stars based on how they make money and what they put in their movies next to the president with the same standard. that's all i'm saying. >> i am going to thank both of you very much. still to come, three teens charged for carving a swastika into a classmate. is he prepared for what a loss could mean? when you order the works you want everything. an expert ford technician knows your car's health depends on a full, complete checkup.

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degree murder charges. also he'll talk with the parents of jordan davis. their reaction, really a shocked reaction to juror number 8 who is african-american and said that race was not a factor in the trial. >> i don't think she's being genuine. for her as an african-american female, to go into this case with this type of evidence, with this type of rage, with him saying thug music, how can you as a juror not think that this was about race? >> it's a really strong interview. you'll want to see that at the top of the hour. breaking news in the violence in ukraine, also venezuela plus tonight's ridiculist all the top of the hour. >> anderson, thank you very much. looking forward to seeing that interview for sure. a shocking attack in oregon. three teenagers charged for carving a swastika into a classmate's forehead what box cutter. they say they wanted his skateboard and cash. it's a horrific thing to comprehend but not the only example of racially horrific things happening.

we've seen several disturb things recently. in mississippi a noose hung around the neck of a statue of civil rights icon james meredith in georgia anger over officials approved a new license plate featuring two images of the confederate flag. outfront tonight, senior fellow with the southern poverty law center and cnn contributor. great to have both of you with us. mark let me ask you the question point blank. we see these headlines, ho horr things happening, are they part of a larger trend, an increase in these kinds of things? >> i think the best data shows that in fact anti-black racism has risen over the last four or five years. there's polling that shows that both implicit and explicit anti-black attitudes among american whites have gone up quite significantly between 2008 and 2012, to the point where now more than half of white americans have these anti-black

attitudes. >> half of why americite americ anti-black attitudes? >> i think that's extremely misleading. when you're looking at things like implicit associations, looking things like so-called microaggressions, some people have identified things that we're characterizing as anti-black attitudes. the trouble if you use these same standards in the past you would see there's actually been a sharp decline. you'll see for example that one out of 12 marriages in the united states are mixed racial marriages. >> you're talking about if you want things as racism then that you count now and did an apples to apples comparison? >> exactly. you need an apples to apples comparison. people are getting very creative in what they're characterizes as racism. when you look at interracial marriages and friendships, when you look at the level of racial segregation you've seen enormous progress over time. and i think that we should celebrate it. >> mark, what's your response to that? >> well, i think if you're talking about a 50-year span or 100-year span obviously that is correct.

it is false, though, that it's only some kind of weird implicit test that is show the levels of anti-black racism. that shows explicit anti-black racism. we've also seen an enormous growth over the last 15 years or so in the number of hate groups, primarily white supremacist groups from about 600 in 2000 to more than 1,000 today. there are a number of things out there that suggest this is going on. frankly i think a piece of it is the permission giving that people like ted nugent in effect give. when ted nugent describes the black president as a subhuman mongrel, he is using language that comes right out of the nazi party, right out of the klan. so i think that has an effect. when a major politician in texas refuses to condemn this in any way, i think it in effect tells certain people out there, it's all right to have these kinds of attitudes. >> do you think that's true,

that it tells certain people that it's okay? people who already think this, no normal person would but certain people? >> quite the opposite. i think what we see is a world in which anti-racists have a lot of voice. they have a lot of invuns. so whenever someone says something like that that's so appalling, what happens is they get an enormous amount of push back. i think that's a very good thing. but another thing is that we have organizations like the southern poverty law center that really have grown enormously in recent years. for example, in 1995, the splc had net assets about 52 million. in 2011 they had net as is the over 250 million. this is not a period of time during which racism increased by a factor of five. rather they've been able to grow by drawing on incidents of this kind and then weaving them into a story about racism growing. racism is real. it needs to be combatted. but we also need to be wary of people who profit from the perception that racism is something that it's not, which is to say a growing phenomenon. >> so mark, let me give you a chance to respond to that since

obviously that's you he's talking about. >> it's simply an ad hominum attack on the part of my counterpart here. the reality is that people out there are worried about what is happening in this country. i think it is undeniable we've seen a remarkable amount of polarization over the last five or six years. and that is very likely the reason that people send us money. the idea that the data i'm citing has somehow been produced in order for the splc to get wealthy is just kind of a gutter attack that doesn't really mean much. >> thanks very much to both of you. i appreciate to get feedback from all of you on that on those points. thanks so much. thanks for all of you watching. anderson cooper is after this. step seven point two one two. verify and lock. command is locked. five seconds. three, two, one.

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good evening, everyone. tonight the parents of jordan davis on their loss, their search for justice and their mission to make people see who their child really was. plus only on 360, one juror's battle for a guilty verdict in his murder. juror number 8 speaks out for the very first time tonight. also ahead tonight, breaking news in the latest suspected shoe bombing plot. we're learning who could be behind it. and the answer is troubling. plus they're supposed to be america's top diplomats but they sound more like the ambassadors from the land of duh. how big-time political donators bag swanky ambassadorships to countries they know little to nothing about. tot